What is the most difficult promotion in the minors?

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NotFromTheBandwagon	What is the most difficult promotion in the minors?		Lead	[-]
Rookie Posts: 1 07/01/08 3:56 PM	Tags : None Just wondering what the various opinions might be regarding which promotion within the minors is generally the most difficult for players to make. I understand it is slightly different for everyone. We all know guys like Masterson essentially skipped AAA, and many prospects can start out in a higher level than others. But I am talking about in general. I am also not necessarily talking about promotions within the Red Sox farm system but within the minor leagues as a whole. Do you think it is more difficult to make the jump from 1. Rookie Ball to Low A 2. Low A to High A. 3. High A to AA. 4. AA to AAA. My own opinion, based upon not much more than instint (as I am new to this forum and also new to a more vigorous study of the farm system) is that the jump from AA to AAA seems to be a "big" leap. Again, I wish I had some statistical justification for that. At this point, its not necessarily a rational thought, just an idea. I take it as a given that the most difficult promotion of all is to get from AAA to the majors. But as I am typing this, I wonder if some will disagree with even that assumption. Also, do you consider that you would give a different answer for pitchers as opposed to position players? FYI, this is a great forum. I am glad to participate.
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flap1919		#1	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 2513 07/01/08 4:08 PM	I think the most talked about jump around here is the one from Hi-A to AA. The leap to AA to AAA in this organization typically signifies that the FO thinks you are major league ready. I think you could make a significant case for either jump, it comes down to getting ready for more adavanced pitchers/hitters or being deemed "ready" to contribute in Boston.
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Brownies28		#2	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 40 07/01/08 4:08 PM	I think you'll find that most people will look to slightly lower levels when talking about the biggest 'jump'--I personally believe it to be A+ to AA. In A+ you still have, to a degree, pitchers who can get by with a blazing fastball and batters who still have a big hole in their swing able to produce. It isn't until you get to AA where some of these weaknesses are truly highlighted. As far as AA to AAA, I think--at least as it pertains to the Sox system--you don't really see prospects making their way to AAA until the team believes they're actually ready for the big show (as has been discussed on these boards quite a bit, most people are of the belief that the Red Sox philosophy is to use AA as the final seasoning, whereas AAA is a 'shuttle system'--where players who are ready to contribute to the big club are in a holding pattern of sorts). In addition, I think you'll find that big-time prospects all over the sport make a AA to MLB leap--so not only do you have players successfully jumping over the AAA level, you have a number of systems that don't really use AAA as a final developmental stage and, therefore, the talent level probably isn't as high as one would expect (hopefully that makes sense...I just read it over and I'm not sure I even understand what I just wrote). Anyway, that's my thought: A+ to AA, it's what separates the men (true prospects) from the boys (flameouts).
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nationinthesouth		#3	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1160 07/01/08 4:16 PM Veteran Member	I have always thought and have heard that AA is the point that makes or breaks most prospects. Players that succeed at the AA level usually have the ability to play at the MLB level. The Sox seem to especially adhere to this philosophy in terms of their top prospects. Usually if they have success at AA then the AAA level is a quick stop depending on the roster needs of the big club. This obviously has variable factors such as age of the prospect with Bell being an example. The key to this discussion is separating legit prospects and organizational fillers at any level. Those who are tabbed as fillers may have a level of success at the AA or any level but not necessarily have the ability to move up. Last Edited By: nationinthesouth 07/01/08 4:35 PM. Edited 1 time.
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DCRi		#4	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 320 07/01/08 4:29 PM Veteran Member	It does seem that AA is the final level for many players. The Pawtucket team has a combination of older AAAA players to be used in emergencies and major league ready prospects. Occasionally there are a few players at AAA like Pritz and Zink who do not seem to fit exactly into either category. The AA team usually is dominated by "prospects," although occasionally an AAA player slides down there. The Sox do not tend to move players from AA to AAA if they have not done pretty well at AA, so it tends to be a dead end for those who don't make the transition from A+. So probably that leap from A+ to AA is the toughest.
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krovvysox		#5	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 339 07/01/08 4:30 PM Veteran Member	I have always heard A+ to AA, and I think I can agree with that now that I have more experience with both. I grew up going to A+ games in Wilmington (and A- in Salisbury, MD) and started going to AAA games in college in Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse. But it was just a couple years ago that I got to go to some AA games. Here's my impression: Obviously, the gap between A+ and AAA is considerable, but upon first seeing AA games, I was surprised how close it is to AAA. In fact, I would say that the biggest difference between AA and AAA is not so much the level of the talent (in fact you see a lot of great prospects in AA so there's plenty of talent) but rather what people are doing with that talent. AAA seems to be more about performance, where players take their talent and use it as they would in an MLB game. They're putting parts together. AA is about practice, developing talent. It's where they strengthen each part before putting them all together. For example, I saw a pitcher in AA once start every single batter out with a curveball for the first four innings of the game. It had nothing to do with what actually happened to the pitch (batters caught on and started ripping them) but instead everything to do with that pitcher being told he needed to work on getting his curveball over for strike one. On the other hand though, A+ to AA is a flat out jump in talent. A+ is about sorting out talent. If you figure it this way, the minors consist of prospects and people who are allowed to play baseball professionally so that the prospects have someone to play against. Before A+ ball, I think everyone at least has a shot of turning themself into a prospect even if they weren't truly considered a legit one before. But at A+, players get sorted out. Guys who will make the bigs if they work for it the rest of the way. Guys who can make a decent living playing minor league ball and maybe bouncing up to the majors a few times. And guys who will never be good enough to give prospects in AA and AAA decent competition (ie, guys who should go find other work while they're still young). As was said earlier, I don't think AA to AAA is all that big when you consider how many prospects go straight from AA to MLB, and lower in the minors, guys are still developing so rapidly that everyone gets a shot at being a prospect (to some degree). But if you get stuck in A+ for a couple years, you're not going to last long. The jump is just too big.
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NotFromTheBandwagon		#6	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 3 07/02/08 10:49 AM	Is there a difference in the difficulty of transition from one level to the next for pitchers as opposed to position players?
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ChuckZ		#7	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 11 07/02/08 11:06 AM	I don't think it's fair to say that one jump is consistently the toughest for every prospect. It really depends on what they have to work on and what their strengths and weaknesses are. Example, take a guy like Abe Alvarez. Flies through the low minors and can even get by at AA, but once he was sent to Pawtucket the year after his spot start in Boston, but just doesn't have the stuff to compete in AAA and ends up being released after trying to make the necessary adjustments to that level. On the other hand, I think a guy like Place is going to have a tougher time going from hi-A to AA, simply because he has the tools to compete at that level, but needs to make the necessary mental leap in order to adjust to what pitchers will do to him there. If he puts it together in AA, I have no doubt that he will be able to make the transition to AAA, just because his tools will translate better than a fringe guy like Alvarez's. Other guys like Brandon Wood can handle all levels of the minors, but just can't make that leap to the majors because of weaknesses that are exposed there. So there is no single "toughest jump". It really depends on a player's skillset and how he can translate that skillset into games in relation to what the opposition is throwing at him.
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raftsox		#8	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 297 07/02/08 11:44 AM	ChuckZ wrote: I don't think it's fair to say that one jump is consistently the toughest for every prospect. It really depends on what they have to work on and what their strengths and weaknesses are. Example, take a guy like Abe Alvarez. Flies through the low minors and can even get by at AA, but once he was sent to Pawtucket the year after his spot start in Boston, but just doesn't have the stuff to compete in AAA and ends up being released after trying to make the necessary adjustments to that level. On the other hand, I think a guy like Place is going to have a tougher time going from hi-A to AA, simply because he has the tools to compete at that level, but needs to make the necessary mental leap in order to adjust to what pitchers will do to him there. If he puts it together in AA, I have no doubt that he will be able to make the transition to AAA, just because his tools will translate better than a fringe guy like Alvarez's. Other guys like Brandon Wood can handle all levels of the minors, but just can't make that leap to the majors because of weaknesses that are exposed there. So there is no single "toughest jump". It really depends on a player's skillset and how he can translate that skillset into games in relation to what the opposition is throwing at him. good post. You're on to something. There are a lot of players who have the necessary tools and smarts, but can't seem to make the jump to the majors, but since this thread is about minor league jumps, i'll have to go with A+ to AA. As has been mentioned before there are many many prospects that just can't adjust to the rigors and consistency of AA. A while back in another thread someone mentioned that AAA is the home of "almost major leaguers". the joe thurstons who will be called up for emergencies; and because of their overall lack of definitive talent, these guys will tend to do some things that not necessarily accepted practice for legit prospects. They might swing on 3-0 pitches or go back to back to back CU to maybe get some periferal edge statistically that could get them an extended callup, but will ultimately not work in the bigs. Basically what i'm saying is that the jump from A+ to AA is about refinement and consistency while the AA to AAA jump means you're waiting for your spot to open up in the majors and hoping you've got what it takes to stay there. I just didn't feel like getting seven different kinds of scabies that night. ~ Chach
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FAN	Minor League Promotion	#9	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 5 07/08/08 2:13 AM	I agree,the promotion to AA is the most difficult for all players,position or pitcher. At this point players must be physically mature,so they can fully demonstrate their hitting,power, speed,arm,and fielding tools,for promotion. At this point the organization has broken the players down to;star,regular,fringe,or organizational. They know the player's generic qualities of; aggressiveness,instinct,dedication,and good work ethic. They have rated the players for present and future performance. The Red Sox grade young players closely on; instincts,intelligence,confidence,work habits,ability to adapt. How do they deal with increased competition,adversity(performance or environment related),and how they cope, when they are not promoted on "their" timetable. Organizations prefer not to move AA-MLB rated players to AAA if possible. Many AAA players are at,or past peak age,(28 years plus), and are not going up to MLB,or have been up,and are now down. A big per cent of these players have a bad attitude, and organizations do not want their prospects subjected to this environment. For this reason,and others organizations prefer to promote from AA to MLB.
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What is the most difficult promotion in the minors?

What is the most difficult promotion in the minors?

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