I don't really understand this trade from the Nuggets perspective, unless they plan to package Chauncey in another deal around the deadline. The Nuggets
basically have punted on 2009 after dealing away AI and Camby. I wonder what's in store for 'Melo?
0 Kudo
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 PrahaSMC |
#21 | |||
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Posts: 459 11/03/08 4:54 PM |
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TEXS31 |
#22 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 1418 11/03/08 5:09 PM |
I think the opposite.
I think this makes Denver a better team this year than they were (though that might just be putting them back to even after the Camby trade). Sure if Nene and Martin can be healthy for a full year, than they could be fine. But that's a big if. I agree with John Hollinger's points though on why this is a good deal for Denver: 1. If you believe in PER as a metric, Billups is the best player (also factoring D) 2. The lineup makes more sense with a pure PG and a SG (Smith) instead of two SGs 3. This will make Melo better 4. McDyess (if he reports) adds good protection for the fragile Nene and Martin 5. (his 5th point isn't as big with me - Billups and McDyess being good guys with ties to the team/community) |
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PrahaSMC |
#23 | |||
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Posts: 460 11/03/08 6:47 PM |
I read Hollinger's column, but here's how I feel about it:
-The Nuggets aren't contending in the West this year. - McDyess is 34. He won't contribute to the next contending Nuggets team and he was really only included in the trade to make the money work, as he's not worth a prorated $6.8 mil this year and an addtional $6.8 mil next season... especially not for a fringe play-off team. -Billups contract isn't bad, but he'll be 33 next season and is signed through 2011, whereas Iverson expires after this season. So yes, Billups gives them a piece to build around, but they are going to be wasting the back-end of his prime in a re-building effort. -Thus, I guess my argument isn't against trading AI per se, it's about taking a 32 year old player back as the centerpiece. Obviously, there needed to be roughly $20 mil in salary coming back to fit this under the cap, but I thought AI could have brought back a better return from a team like Cleveland, where you swap Wally's expiring contract and get back a pair of #1 draft picks or something. That way, the Nuggets would get younger and gain some cap relief.
Last Edited By: PrahaSMC 11/03/08 8:39 PM.
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 Duffman545 |
#24 | |||
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Posts: 1010 11/30/08 10:59 PM |
I can't hide my excitement about the Nets. They're laden with young talent, and with the exception of Chris Douglas-Roberts (who hasn't played yet)
and Sean Williams they're all beginning to take steps forward. Harris has been dominating opposing guards and Lopez is showing flashes of the dominant
20-10 guy he can be.
I think they could surprise some Eastern Conference teams from a low seed come playoff time. |
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tdrowe |
#25 | |||
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Posts: 342 11/30/08 11:58 PM
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Duffman545 wrote: Well, if they play the Celts in the first round, we just might go the distance, losing all of the games in NJ.
What do you think of trading Josh Hamilton for a veteran pitcher such as Tim Wakefield? I think he would give us a lot of
veteran leadership atop the rotation. -- Mike H., Madison, Wis.
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WillyCoPapi3 |
#26 | |||
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Posts: 3144 12/01/08 1:25 AM Veteran Member |
Devin Harris is already a top 5 point guard in the NBA. It's not even debatable.
Lugo is a walking poster child for late term abortions. I know he's in the 95th trimester or whatever but he should be the loophole to the law. mahalo
~Chach~ |
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Duffman545 |
#27 | |||
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Posts: 1011 12/01/08 1:51 PM |
When the Kidd trade went down people expected Harris to be a player in the East, but I don't think even the most optimistic of Nets fans saw this offensive
outburst coming. He's one of the quickest guards in the game and has this nifty little stop-and-spin move he uses against bigger defenders down low.
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PrahaSMC |
#28 | |||
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Posts: 524 12/01/08 3:19 PM |
WillyCoPapi3 wrote:Among a group of Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steven Nash, Derrick Rose, Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, and Jose Calderon, it is perfectly debatable whether Devin Harris is among the top-5. His numbers in the first thirteen games of this season look nothing like his past four years. He's a good player, possibly making "the leap" to a great one, but he's a much better scorer than he is a passer and not a great defender. He's quick and can take a lot of defenders off the dribble, so he gets to the free throw line a lot. However, teams are going to guard him differently if he continues to torch them man-on-man. If Devin Harris is taking 12 free throws a game in March, then maybe I'll revisit my evaluation of him as a scorer. That said, we are talking about him as Gilbert Arenas/Joe Johnson "not really a point, but playing the point" type of point guard... he's definietly not in the league of Paul, Williams, or Nash in his prime. "This Kenny Mauer should go home to his wife... because nobody here loves him." - Tommy Heinsohn |
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WillyCoPapi3 |
#29 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 3146 12/02/08 12:31 PM Veteran Member |
Can you please stop using facts to make an argument against my statements? Thanks.
Lugo is a walking poster child for late term abortions. I know he's in the 95th trimester or whatever but he should be the loophole to the law. mahalo
~Chach~ |
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tdrowe |
#30 | |||
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Posts: 351 12/02/08 3:54 PM
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Gary Tanguay said last night on "Sports Tonight," that if he were a star NBA player, the point guard he would want most on his team was Rajon Rondo.
My buddy and I laughed heartily for a good five minutes.
What do you think of trading Josh Hamilton for a veteran pitcher such as Tim Wakefield? I think he would give us a lot of
veteran leadership atop the rotation. -- Mike H., Madison, Wis.
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TEXS31 |
#31 | |||
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Posts: 1441 12/02/08 4:25 PM |
The "point" he was making is that, unlike most NBA point guards, Rondo's first THREE options are passing it to one of the scorers. I don't believe he was saying he thinks Rajon is the best or even one of the best point guards in the league. He just believes (correctly so) that Rajon is the point guard who most often thinks about passing (as we've seen, to a fault). |
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MasterShake15 |
#32 | |||
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Posts: 889 12/02/08 5:05 PM
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TEXS31 wrote:But Tanguay's logic is flawed. He thinks that every scorer in the league would rather have touches and shots than wins. That's likely true in some cases, but for the guys he specifically mentioned (Lebron and Wade) I find that hard to believe. And what about superstars like Pierce, Allen and KG? Haven't the New Three placed a great deal of emphasis on sacrificing personal numbers for a championship? Haven't media members (like Gary Tanguay) gone out of their way to point this out at every opportunity? Chris Paul (used here as the most obvious example) would CLEARLY give any team more of a chance to win a championship than would Rajon Rondo. Just because Chris Paul possesses an NBA level jumpshot (which Rondo lacks) doesn't mean he's selfish or would hog the ball instead of passing to superstar players. Honestly, if Chris Paul were on the Celtics, wouldn't his first three options be to look for KG, PP, or RA? Tanguay doesn't know shit about sports, and I'd imagine you could count on one hand the number of Hornets games he's watched from start to finish. It's a completely indefensible position unless you assume that every superstar in the NBA (except for the New Three, of course) would rather shoot a few more times per game than win a championship.
Cem21.u says: Wells was a veteran boozer
Last Edited By: MasterShake15 12/02/08 5:13 PM.
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MLBDreams |
#33 | |||
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Posts: 260 12/02/08 6:32 PM |
I thought NO Hornets would take off as fast start with James Posey on the roster. They thought he was the player away from winning the title. Their preseason
record was perfect but they're off slow start as 9-6 while the Celtics are fine w/o JP.
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tdrowe |
#34 | |||
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Posts: 354 12/02/08 9:50 PM
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MasterShake15 wrote:Exactly. Rajon Rondo is not even the best passing PG in the game today, nor is he likely the most unselfish. He is averaging 10 points a game this season, and I guarantee you if D-Will, or Chauncey, or CP3, etc were on this team instead of Rajon, P²'s scoring would be up, Ticket's scoring would be up, and Ray Ray's scoring would be up; not to mention that said point guard would still score more than Rondo.
What do you think of trading Josh Hamilton for a veteran pitcher such as Tim Wakefield? I think he would give us a lot of
veteran leadership atop the rotation. -- Mike H., Madison, Wis.
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TEXS31 |
#35 | |||
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Posts: 1442 12/03/08 8:58 AM |
I agree with what you guys are saying. I (and, apparantly, he) have seen that Rondo wants to pass more than shoot (and I think more than any other PG in the
league - again, to a fault). I agree, he's not a good decision maker all the time.
I wasn't supporting his full theory just making the distinction between what he was saying and any suggestion that he thinks Rondo is one of the top PGs (all around) in the league. That's all. |
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Plus Plus Intangibles |
#36 | |||
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Posts: 25 12/03/08 5:53 PM |
Gary Tanguay isn't qualified to talk about any sport, but that's not the purpose of my post. The Raptors fired Sammy Mitchell today after an 8-9 start.
You have to think that this has been in the works for a while when a coach with a near .500 record less than a quarter into the season gets canned.
I blame Colangelo and his "Phoenix Suns East" vision, though I can't confess to going over Raps games with a microscope. I am pretty sure that Roy or Gay would have been better selections than Bargnani. |
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PrahaSMC |
#37 | |||
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Posts: 530 12/03/08 6:45 PM |
Plus Plus Intangibles wrote:Hindsight is 20-20 on Roy/Gay... No one was talking about Roy as a potential #1, as he was considered to be a tweener. Everyone knew Gay had ridiculous upside, but the Raptors weren't in much of a position to gamble on a pick, as their roster was totally barren beyond Bosh. The decision ultimately came down to Aldridge, Ty Thomas, or Bargnani... and it looks like they should have taken Aldridge. Anyways, I think you can salvage the Raptors and the coaching change was needed. That isn't a particularly athletic roster, so I think they need to reconsider their offensive approach-- more touches for Jermaine O'Neal, more shots for Moon/Kapono. This season they've been infuriating to watch, because they don't have the talent to run, but they don't have a half court offense either. "This Kenny Mauer should go home to his wife... because nobody here loves him." - Tommy Heinsohn |
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ArodSucksAtLife |
#38 | |||
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Posts: 2929 12/03/08 9:39 PM Veteran Member |
Rondo is going apeshit. Sick triple double.
this post was stupid and full of drunkisms so i reased it - BSCrich |
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tdrowe |
#39 | |||
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Posts: 360 12/03/08 9:51 PM
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They still have some immense talent, and I agree the change was needed. This is a team that can thrive on a motion-type offense with a ton of ball movement. We
have already seen they can rack up the assists with the best of them. That is because they make teams pay for their double teaming.
The defense also needs some better coaching, as they are giving up baskets in every way possible (transition, 3s, in the paint, etc). They need to find a way to create more turnovers, as they are not getting enough possession to utilize their strengths (3-point shooting, free throw shooting, and Chris Bosh). If O'Neal can get healthy (heh) I think he can be a serious force that catapults this team to the head of the second-tier Eastern Conference teams (ORL, DET, ATL).
What do you think of trading Josh Hamilton for a veteran pitcher such as Tim Wakefield? I think he would give us a lot of
veteran leadership atop the rotation. -- Mike H., Madison, Wis.
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Duffman545 |
#40 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 1014 12/04/08 12:42 AM |
I think Jose Calderon is without a doubt an asset for that team. He is a hell of a passer and frankly never turns the ball over. He's averaging 13 points
and 9.5 assists, all while turning the ball over less than twice a game. I feel like the rest of their team is more athletic than O'Neal and would be
better suited without having to run their offense around a guy running on one balky knee.
That said, I think it would be better to say that Devin Harris is Top 3 PG in the East. |
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