under-valued prospect
makes Hazen horny" -Hairps
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AMarshal2 |
Re: Rankings Discussion | #61 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I really think sticking to the roots of this site is how you want to go. We don't want Baseball America type rankings where they focus very heavily on up-side and star potential. Your typical Sox fan is going to remember Kevin Youkilis and Dustin Pedroia no matter what. If there's a really special young talent then we can rank him high but I think we're better off being right than shooting the moon. Guys who've proven themselves at a high level and project strongly as average (or better) big leaguers on the Red Sox deserve to be ranked high. Jed Lowrie has demonstrated a skill set that suggests he has a good chance to be an above average regular. I think you made the right decision.
"like leopard he stalks
under-valued prospect makes Hazen horny" -Hairps |
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Cem21 |
Re: Rankings Discussion | #62 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Interesting new take on the rankings. After thinking about it, I like it. I think when you take a look at the 3 guys, there is still some questions up in the air, but Lowrie did do pretty well in his promotion at AAA and did not struggle some like Masterson and Bowden. I'm thinking that it is going to take into the first couple months of the 2008 season to see which one steps up and sets himself apart into the #3 spot. Who really improved and translates it into results. With Ellsbury and Buchholz expected to graduate next May or so, its really going to open up some great discussion on who is going to rise into the #1 slot. It, of course, may not end up being one of those 3, but lets not to get ahead of ourselves just yet.
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Arquimedez Bozo |
Re: Rankings Discussion | #63 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I'll just simply reiterate my point that the number the player is projected to reach is the first number. They're very realistic if you look at them - only the top 7 are projected to even be major league regulars.
As for the ceiling, that number tends to drop as some players spend more time in AA or AAA. Pedroia's was even an eight when he graduated I believe, and I'd probably put him at #3 right now based on where he was at the end of last season. Ceiling is a highly debatable thing, and I don't feel that the site's projected ceilings are really that unreasonable. Once players like Bowden and Masterson spend more time in advanced leagues, those numbers will come down if they're too high. "they should go to soxprospect so that BOZO THE CLOWN and the rest of THE WANTS TO BE will give you some information" - A SP.com Legend
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chavopepe2 |
Re: Rankings Discussion | #64 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The main issue appears to be what percentage chance a player needs to achieve a given outcome in order for it to be considered his ceiling. There is no right answer, but I think that's what makes the two part grading system so affective. Not only does the first number indicate the likely or projected outcome; the difference between this number and the "ceiling" number gives some hint into the issue of probability.
I think a "9" ceiling for guys like Lowrie, Masterson, and Bowden is right where it should be. |
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flap1919 |
Re: Rankings Discussion | #65 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Buchholz and Ellsbury are obviously 1-2 and likely will not be prospects anymer in April/May. I just don't see Lowrie being the top prospect in the organization, though I really like his offensive potential, I'm not completely sold on him. I think I take Masterson as my top guy at that point (though hopefully Lars finishes the season there). Obviously none of these other guys are a finished product, but I'm liking the power sinker and his size (Masterson is a big guy). He seems like he could be that Webb, Halladay, Carmona type workhorse who seems to get stronger as the year goes on (though Halladay hasn't been right for a few years). Potentially throwing 215-230 solid (occasionally dominant) innings is more valuable to me than an above average offensive SS. Obviously I reserve the right to change my mind next year on either of them, but in my opinion, I go with Masterson for the moment.
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Arquimedez Bozo |
Re: Rankings Discussion | #66 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Personally, I see Lars as the #1 prospect by midseason. I can't even imagine what he'll do in Lancaster...
"they should go to soxprospect so that BOZO THE CLOWN and the rest of THE WANTS TO BE will give you some information" - A SP.com Legend
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flap1919 |
Re: Rankings Discussion | #67 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I agree on Lars AB, and I think he finishes the year as the #1 prospect, but I still think Masterson should get the top spot when Jacoby and Clay exhaust their eligibility. I think Masterson is a more valuable commodity to the Sox or a potential trade partner than Lowrie.
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Cem21 |
#68 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Here's my Top 40 after going through it this morning. I am curious to what other people see as we work through the 2nd month of the year. Feel free to
post your own, critique, and question.
Rankings 1. Masterson 2. Bowden 3. Lowrie 4. Anderson 5. Reddick 6. Kalish 7. Lin 8. Moss 9. Bard 10. Johnson 11. Richardson 12. Tejeda 13. Middlebrooks 14. Wagner 15. Kottaras 16. Rizzo 17. Still 18. Engel 19. Province 20. Carter 21. Dent 22. Hunter Jones 23. Pauley 24. Hagadone 25. Bates 26. Dusty Brown 27. Britton 28. Navarro 29. Doubront 30. Cox 31. Mike Jones 32. Chiang 33. Almanzar 34. Place 35. Diaz 36. Bell 37. Daeges 38. Rhoades 39. Mailman 40. Weeden |
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Arquimedez Bozo |
#69 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Oddly enough, I'd gone through mine today as well. Note that this is still a working list.
1. Justin Masterson 2. Jed Lowrie 3. Michael Bowden 4. Josh Reddick 5. Che-Hsuan Lin 6. Lars Anderson 7. Ryan Kalish 8. Daniel Bard 9. Oscar Tejeda 10. Brandon Moss 11. George Kottaras 12. Will Middlebrooks 13. Kris Johnson 14. Mark Wagner 15. Dustin Richardson 16. Jon Still 17. Anthony Rizzo 18. Chris Carter 19. Nick Hagadone 20. Chris Province 21. Reid Engel 22. Hunter Jones 23. Zach Daeges 24. Ryan Dent 25. Felix Doubront 26. Dusty Brown 27. Bubba Bell 28. Michael Almanzar 29. Aaron Bates 30. Mike Jones 31. David Pauley 32. Bryce Cox 33. Drake Britton 34. Luis Exposito 35. Argenis Diaz 36. Jorge Jimenez 37. Aaron Reza 38. Chad Rhoades 39. Chad Povich 40. Daniel Haigwood Notes: - I moved Bard up to 8 from 10 today after his AA debut. Should I have? Probably not, but whatever. - I'm starting to get really bullish on Daeges. He has a ton of helium right now in my eyes. - I had Bates even lower, but he's starting to come around, so I bumped him up a bit today. - I am really, really down on Navarro, Diaz, and Mailman. There's struggling, and then there's just giving me NOTHING to work with. - It really does seem like we're more or less on the same page though.
"they should go to soxprospect so that BOZO THE
CLOWN and the rest of THE WANTS TO BE will give you some information" - A SP.com Legend
"A doubleheader is better than tipping the other team off the side of a cliff." - Cin1010
Last Edited By: Arquimedez Bozo 05/18/08 7:42 PM.
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Cem21 |
#70 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I like Daeges. I really could have him higher, but I just want to see some power out of him at Portland. When that comes around, I'll probably push
him up into the low 30's or high 20's. We'll have to see, but I think his power stroke is coming around. Mailman has been on of my
disappointments as I thought he would have an easier time adjusting to wood and professional pitching. He's still 19 and in Low A right now. It seems
like every time he starts to come around there are a couple of 0-5's right after to push him back. I really thought he would begin at Lowell and maybe
this was a little aggressive on the placement.
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ancientsoxfogey |
#71 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Given the discussion of the second number in the rankings, I'm a little surprised to see, while Bard has moved into the top 10, that he is still has an 8
as his ceiling projection. Is his ceiling limited because he seems to have been slotted as a reliever at this point, and it's harder for them to achieve
all-star/all-time rankings in this role?
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chavopepe2 |
#72 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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That's exactly right ASF. As defined on this site:
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ancientsoxfogey |
#73 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Hmm, there appears to be a hole at #9 for relief pitchers, since Rivera is given as an example of a 10, but anything short of that can't get above an 8,
according to the chart. Not saying I disagree with an 8 given your explanation and the general nature of this chart. It just seems a little strange.
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Cem21 |
#74 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ancientsoxfogey wrote: Think of it that a dominant closer is considered as valuable as a #2/#3 starter. A true Ace SP is on another level as they have much more of an impact and
there is no reliever comparison to an Ace. That is why there is a gap and no reliever ranks as a 9. The majority of relievers wash out as starters, as with
Bard, so it makes sense that an ace would be a tick above.
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jsinger121 |
#75 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I would move Exposito up into the Top 30. He is hitting at the plate and should be over players like Michael Almanzar (very raw) and Drake Britton.
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stroshow3 |
#76 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This doesn't have to do with the rankings but I'm just going to post it here. I think it might be good to remove the Ichiro reference in Lin's
scouting report. I realize that it's only referring to his speed and not his game in general but at this point (and especially with the increased interest
that will come with the MVP award), I think it might be wise to avoid any Ichiro-Lin comparisons.
How apropos, that on the day Schilling's career may be over, Ryan Pressly, the man so many have compared to
Schilling throughout his amateur career, will take the field wearing the #38. -Temple
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Quintanariffic |
#77 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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#6 for Kelly, Mike? I guess if you're going to put him that high, that's the place (natural break point and all). But I find it hard to rank a kid
with an uncertain positional future higher than guys 1-2 years and 2 levels beyond him who are holding their own. Bard clearly needs work, but he's not
getting lit up at AA by any means. I just can't go that high with him. Discuss.
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Final line for Bard: 3IP, 3H, 6ER, 3/1 K/BB, 1HRA, 3HB, 4WP, 5SBA, 1 groin - amfox1 |
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Cem21 |
#78 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I don't have a problem with Kelly coming in at #6. First, it's his initial ranking coming into the system. As Mike and Amarsh pointed out, it is
difficult in the beginning to get a read on these guys when they sign and you're going off the clues of the organization. They gave us all a pretty big
clue of how they value him. Now, his bonus is inflated. They paid Top 5 money to get him into the system. Is he a Top 5 talent right now? Most likely no.
But, once again, it speaks to the value the Sox have placed on him at the present time. And, that is what you really have to go on until we can get some more
reports and he builds his body of work. The rankings are fluid. Present day snapshot. They change week to week. Almanzar started at a conservative #24 and
after about a month of playing baseball is now up in the Top 10. Pretty good rise. Kelly is right around there right now and there is a lot more scouting on
him coming into the system which we currently have to defer to.
I am curious to where others see him. There have been some objections so where would you (all posters- no one specific) slot him? |
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Quintanariffic |
#79 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I'd personnaly slot Kelly in at #11, and here's why.
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Final line for Bard: 3IP, 3H, 6ER, 3/1 K/BB, 1HRA, 3HB, 4WP, 5SBA, 1 groin - amfox1 |
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nationinthesouth |
#80 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This isn't in regards to the Kelly rankings and is more of a general question as opposed to a compliant. I am curious about Huntzinger, Although he has climbed significantly in the rankings he still is somewhat low. Is it a case where his stuff doesn't play out in comparison to the level of success he has had as a high school draftee from last year? Or is it just a case of his ranking slowly catching up to the numbers? edit: Upon further review I guess I didn't realize he was currently slotted at 19. Looking at the list of those ahead of him there is only 1 name I could make an argument with.
Last Edited By: nationinthesouth 07/18/08 1:10 PM.
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